Thursday, March 01, 2012

Alternate sites for Carhagouha

Bressani map
In follow up to my most recent post on the location of the village of Carhagouha that was visited by Champlain in 1615 I have sought out other locations that historians, archaeologists and others have indicated as possible locations for this historic village.

The following is my list to date and I would be pleased to hear from others if they know of other sites speculated to be that of the Carhagouha of Champlain:



  1. The Pratt site first noted by A F Hunter (site 19 Tiny twp) on lot 113 con 1 Tay twp also note by A E Jones as his site # 33. There was a bone pit there examined by Dr Tache. F Ridley examined this site in 1971 and determined it to be a Lalonde site. There were some circular stone works found there (I believe by A F Hunter). A E Jones identifies this site with the village that the Jesuits knew as St Charles (Old Wendake pg 146). The site appears as Carhagougha on C Heidenreich's map. The site was not found again by F Ridley in 1974. - I do not have a Borden # for this site on my database.
  2. Copeland Creek Estates (lot 9 con 13 Tiny twp) - possible site of Quieunonascaran or the next generation of Carhagouha at Sagard's time (1623). - see Heidenreich (1968). Determined as prehistoric 15th century see 1992 assessment. Copeland Creek Estates contains 3 sites -  BeGx-3 village, Alcorn site BeGx-46 find spot, McKee site BeGx-47 Quieunonascaran village. These sites are set aside and owned by Tiny twp as Heritage Plots.
  3. The Desroche site (A F Hunter # 8 Tiny twp report) - lot 20 con 17 see also A E Jones # 8 - no ossuary - Pre contact village (see G Warrick) - some ashbeds according to A F Hunter - I do not have a Borden # for this site. This is the site currently marked with the crosses were the Jesuits hold Mass each August 12th and note it as the site of the 1st Mass in Ontario recorded by Champlain in 1615.
  4. Thunder Bay 1 (Ridley) on lots 17 & 18 con 19 Tiny twp - examined by University of Western Ont. (W Jury) - need to secure report from U of W - thought to be Carhagouha by Jury -  seen to be worth consideration as Carhagougha according to F Ridley. - This site is on the lot line split by Simcoe County forest and private land owner. I do not have a Borden # for this site.
  5. Gary Warrick identifies a site as Quieunonascaran 1623, 1634-38 at the tip of Midland Pt according to GW map 1990. - Borden # BeGx-9
  6. Bressani map - in Midland.

3 comments:

William Gibson said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
William Gibson said...

This site has real and continuing significance for Roman Catholics. Each year a Mass is said at this currently revered location on August 15th. I imagine a special commemoration will be arranged in 2015.

A side note....the Dufferin Peel Catholic School Board sought permission to use one of my online photos of the altar and cross at the current site in a richly detailed history of Catholicism in their area and they wanted to begin with the first Mass in Ontario. I gave them permission. This village has extra significance and doing more work to locate it correctly would affect in a real and direct way many Ontarians.

John Raynor said...

To be able to vindicate the actual locations of the sites in Huronia sacred to the Church would be a project worthy of scholarship. This review has not been done since A E Jones,S.J. the Archivist of St. Mary's College, Montreal completed and published his work in 1908 under the title "Old Huronia". The number of archaeological sites found since then and the science used to identify these sites has changed greatly over the past 100 years and might well be worth a new scholarly investigation.